Selling teen sites.

[Head Boy]

I've not tried to sell much in the teen market, but it has always seemed to me that there are two types of customer. Teens and twenties looking for their peers, or at least girls in a similar same age group. Older guys looking for younger girls to satisfy their fantasies or nostalgia. Am I right, and is there much difference in the sales methods for each group?

For this thread, I've assumed that the sites are straight, and don't have much fetish content. I'm aware that that cuts out a massive chunk of the teen market, but I suspect the split will be different for sub/dom sites and other niches.

[tolik]

lost a bit at thread title for be fair. as i understand you mean selling memberships to teen paysites - right?

[Head Boy]

Sorry I was a bit cryptic.

What I'm really trying to research is whether it's worth having a site for guys over 40 who want to join teen paysites. I just felt they might have a different perspective.

[Adriaan]

I think most teens are so good looking and so "fresh" almost everyone is into teens and almost everyone loves teens in some way...

Some people say gay is a market, but I think teen is a market on its self.

[Head Boy]

I agree with you Adriaan, but I'm wondering if it's worth looking at the surfers' motivations rather than just the products. Maybe guys over 40 have more jaded sexual palates, or maybe they want to escape from their wives in their fantasies.

[flip]

As a long time over 40 I like teens 20's 30's 40's etc etc...

I reckon blokes (or women) sign up if the woman gets their interest and the paysite sells - as Dutch Harry (I think once said) - we as "affiliates" are the neon sign saying "nekked gals here" - that's our job it's up to the site to sell

I sell most niches well - I get the clicks however conversions not so good lol...

Me or the site..?

Pin me down and I tend to get excited (lol) by 30+ somethings

[tolik]

well as for me for 40+ age it better will be push sites old vs young - like we have daddiesanddarlings site where old mans fucking young girls.

it will work best. also it really convert from diff. types of traffic - sometimes even from mature traffic

think by yourself - 40+ surfer looking for teen porn at most cases will be enjoy looking porn where someone in his age fucking young girl etc. sure description/banners should be also done well for get good results.

[BadWolf]

I'm 40......I don't think you have to present teens any differently for my age group than any other. I think a sexy teen pretty much sells herself.

[Paul Markham]

Teens or 18-22 which usually covers it is a massive market in porn, by far and away the biggest. But it is split into lots of sub sections, styles and actions. Selling it is either very easy or impossible. The difference is in the skills of the seller.

A few tips. To those who need to improve there returns in this field. This is a very general advice and there are obvious exceptions and will only scratch the surface. LOL

First and the most important.
It's the biggest market, the most covered and the most competitive. If you don't understand it stay out of it or learn about it fast. The teen sites at the top of the tree are the ones surfers will judge your site against. He pays $30 for Teen Dreams, Sapphic, Alsscan, Met Art, etc. So expects the same value for money when he lands on the next site he's thinking about joining.

If you're delivering hits to a site and getting bad ratios that's as much your fault as it is the site you're sending it to. In fact I can't think of why it's the sites fault. If the site's bad why are you sending traffic to it in the first place? Your fault if you don't know the difference between a good site and a bad one.

Go look at some of the top review sites and see the sites that are at the top. Then work out why they are at the top. The sites are well known and most of them convert well. Maybe not for you but then that's more likely to be your fault than the sites fault. Remember you chose it.

Look and learn, work out what the site has that appeals to the surfer. Look at the image content, text and design. Learn why surfers sign up to these sites. Think as a buyer and not a seller. There are many programs that sell to webmasters first and the surfer second. Dangerous thing to do when the surfer has high expectations and so many choices. The webmaster and the site sells the membership. I'm talking about selling here and not just sending as many clicks as possible and hoping. Can work in other niches, not in teens.

Look at how the site covers the section and style of the Teen niche it's selling to. If it's "sex mad teens couples" does the content on the tour have good content that fulfils that niche? If it does not don't send traffic. If you don't know what that section of the niche is about why are you selling it? Same goes for all sections of any niche.

Lastly when you have a site in mind think long and hard about how "saturated" the site's promotion is. You could be 1 in 10,000 working affiliates and this will make selling the site very tough. Some sites convert better than sites better to it, simply on the numbers of surfers promoting it and the odds the surfer knows it.

Respect your customer.
So simple it amazes me how many have so little respect for their prospective customers and expect him to buy. A lack of respect taints your sales. Sexual arousal stems MAINLY from two things, the need to reproduce and memories.

18-22 years olds reproduce better than 38-42 year olds. It's biological and natural that men get turned on by teens.

We normally hit puberty at 12-14 yrs old, the odds on the first arousal to be someone in the same class as us, is high. This is why teens in class rooms sell. MILF is your mates Mum, Big Tits is a big tit memory and the same for most niches.

This is why teens sell, not because we are paedophiles, it's because sexual arousal is linked to memories and biological. Society has made it a sin. Live with it you're selling porn not bibles. I'm not talking about abuse, degradation, force or incest here. Sub niches and nothing to do with the teens niche in reality.

Teens don't sell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!
Biggest load of BS I've ever heard. And only believed by the truly stupid. (This is me inviting flamers.)

Look around at the top sites and see what they spend on spots, promotion, content and work out how they spend that money on a niche that does not convert. The truth is "I'm not good enough at teens to convert it."

Let the flaming begin. Ask questions and I will reply.

[Head Boy]

I don't think anyone believes that teens don't sell. I think it's a hard market to exploit profitably. One reason for that is that most young webmasters like teens, and they target that market as a personal preference. I can't sell teens as if I was an 18 year old, so I need to work out my own sales methods. I'm interested in selecting my potential sales by surfer age rather than the more usual filters. Right now I don't know if that's a sensible approach, but it does tie in with the traditional marketing sequence of -

- Find your customers
- Work out what they want
- Decide on the sales triggers
- Make sales.

[Paul Markham]

Sorry HB but I've heard "Teens don't sell." for years. It's usually the seller can't sell it and won't admit to it. LOL

You're not right about teens and 18 year olds. A big section of the market is 40+ and they're more likely to spend money on the Adult Net than 18 yr olds. Most 18 year olds have not developed specific porn "tastes" to warrant buying it. They will get off to anything vaguely porno. 40 yr olds are more discerning when it comes to wine, women and song. LOL

[Head Boy]

My reference to teens and 18 year old guys, was related to webmasters rather than surfers. I can see that 18 year old porn buyers could split into 2 (or more) groups - those looking for peer pictures, and those looking for pics of their friends' mums.

I'm trying to get a feel for the triggers that make 40+ surfers buy, and to see if they are the same as the triggers for 18-30 year old buyers. I can't be wrong, because right now I've no idea if there is even a difference. But you say that older buyers are more discerning, so I guess there is. Could it be that they want fillet steak rather than McDonalds?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Head Boy

My reference to teens and 18 year old guys, was related to webmasters rather than surfers. I can see that 18 year old porn buyers could split into 2 (or more) groups - those looking for peer pictures, and those looking for pics of their friends' mums.

I'm trying to get a feel for the triggers that make 40+ surfers buy, and to see if they are the same as the triggers for 18-30 year old buyers. I can't be wrong, because right now I've no idea if there is even a difference. But you say that older buyers are more discerning, so I guess there is. Could it be that they want fillet steak rather than McDonalds?

18 year olds selling to 40 year olds.
Good luck with that approach. It's about as useful as selling to guys who can get off in 5 minutes and log off. OK I will be nice now.

Think like a buyer not a seller if you want to sell more. In general an 18 year old will not buy teen porn. He's got to be a real geek not to get laid by a peer in 2007 and the odds on him buying porn are slim. Sell him the fantasy he can't get his hands on.

The odds on an 18 year old knowing how a 40 year old thinks is even longer. I am talking about SELLING here and not handing out leaflets to passers by and hoping.

What triggers a 40 year old to get his wallet out for teen porn on the Net? Good question and the key to success. Hard question to answer in a board post because there are so many variables. but here goes.

Porn = Fantasy that is believable.
The viewer has to believe it's real and COULD HAPPEN TO HIM. Tough job to do and where most fall down. This is very general. The action has to convince the viewer the models are fucking for an orgasm not a dollar. They're into the fucking not the money and if the viewer was there he could do the same. This is why Amateur and reality are good niches if done right and so hard with todays porn industry.

The model is not a piece of meat, she/he is a person and real.

"Could it be that they want fillet steak rather than McDonalds?" Spot on.

I'm not saying you can't knock a wall over by slinging mud at it. I'm saying the odds are on you knocking it down by throwing well aimed large rocks at a wall that will easily topple.

Or.

Offering a hungry man a MacDonalds when every one else is offering him fillet steak is not a good sales approach. and the reason so many do badly in the biggest niche in porn. If you're selling sites that pander to you, be careful. The ones that pander to the surfer are the ones that convert.

[Head Boy]

Paul - that's just general stuff that we all know.

I posted in another of your threads that I'm considering using Dirty teen fun to compare sales between a few teen sponsors, and I'm considering trying to give it a bias towards sales to mature surfers. I know about selling porn sites, and I can guess about surfer motivation. What I don't know is the motivation and triggers for 40+ porn consumers buying teen paysite memberships

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Head Boy

Paul - that's just general stuff that we all know.

I posted in another of your threads that I'm considering using Dirty teen fun to compare sales between a few teen sponsors, and I'm considering trying to give it a bias towards sales to mature surfers. I know about selling porn sites, and I can guess about surfer motivation. What I don't know is the motivation and triggers for 40+ porn consumers buying teen paysite memberships

Read my post again and assume LB wrote it. It's all in there.

The problem is I can't tell you how to promote Sapphic Erotica, Paul Markham Teens, Teen Dream, Alsscan, etc. in one post. You need to look at the site and decide for yourself the right triggers.

But in the main the triggers are what relates to the site and the sales angle you're taking. For instance a surfer puts into Google "dirty teen fun" and he lands on your site.

He's looking for teens having dirty fun. Dirty in the terms of "messy" or "rude"? Or both?

Next you need to think about what sites fill the surfers needs to jerk off to "dirty teen fun". It's pointless selling him a site that does not meet these needs and if you're going to restrict your sponsors to your usual criteria you're going to lose money. Did you hear me?

IF YOU CHOOSE PAYSITES ON WHAT APPEALS TO YOU AND NOT WHAT APPEALS TO YOUR TRAFFIC YOU LOSE MONEY. Of course it's your decision to make or lose money but don't complain.

So you have a good mix of sites with teens having fun getting messy and having fun and teens just having fun rude sex, it might be a good idea to split the site at the front to sort them out.

So what triggers your surfer? Did you think that one through?

[Paul Markham]

So what triggers your surfer? Did you think that one through?

Sorry had to go for a pee and stop laughing.

Man walks into a clothing shop with red shirts in the window display and asks to see red shirts in his size. Shop assistant shows him a tin of baked beans. Odds on getting a sale are low.

Man walks into a clothing shop with red shirts in the window and asks to see red shirts in his size. Shop assistant shows him half a dozen different shirts in different shades of red and different styles. Odds on getting a sale are good.

The surfer has already told you what he wants.

It's a bit different with Internet traffic, not a lot though. Assume the surfer landing on your site has come to buy what motivated him to come to your site.

[Head Boy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The problem is I can't tell you how to promote Sapphic Erotica, Paul Markham Teens, Teen Dream, Alsscan, etc. in one post. You need to look at the site and decide for yourself the right triggers.

But in the main the triggers are what relates to the site and the sales angle you're taking. For instance a surfer puts into Google "dirty teen fun" and he lands on your site.

There you go - you're considering it from the standard adult webmaster angle. You're saying - I want to promote PMT, how do I do it?

I'm saying - I want to sell to 40+ porn buyers, how do I target them?

I haven't seen many posts about it as most webmaster are niche- or sponsor-centric. If you don't know the answer Paul, just say so. Saying that I shouldn't be asking the question, and trying to answer another question isn't constructive in the context of this thread.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Head Boy

There you go - you're considering it from the standard adult webmaster angle. You're saying - I want to promote PMT, how do I do it?

I'm saying - I want to sell to 40+ porn buyers, how do I target them?

I haven't seen many posts about it as most webmaster are niche- or sponsor-centric. If you don't know the answer Paul, just say so. Saying that I shouldn't be asking the question, and trying to answer another question isn't constructive in the context of this thread.

Did you read my second post?

I'm sorry if it flew over your head or you want a flaming match.

So for the last time. As simple as I can make it.

I want to sell to 40+ porn buyers, how do I target them? They are already targeted. Just point them in the right direction.

They come looking for "dirty teen fun" so show them sites offering "dirty teen fun".

They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted. They are already targeted.

Did you get that?

[Head Boy]

Oh dear Paul - you really don't get it do you?

How are they targeted if I haven't set up the site? Why do 40+ surfers visit some sites and not others? - Does anybody know? Which adult webmasters collect stats on their surfers' ages?

[hardcoreblogger]

shame when i clicked on this thread i thought not another flaming war with paul markham... like in many other threads that were killed this way.

but HB, paul has a point here. the surfer is rather targeted by his search terms than by his age...a 25 yr old searching for "dirty teen porn" will probably buy the same as a 55 yr old searching for this term.