Quote of the year by Paul Markham:

[Tuula]

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

THIS is EXACTLY what I've been trying to explain from the beginning..

Don't say that line anymore, you're starting to sound like someone we know!

Sorry

[Tuula]

Originally Posted by Varzi Network

Paul and many others have a few more years left and that's the end of the road. The future of porn will require lots of technical understanding that low priced overseas employees will not be able to offer. Very few sites out there can drop $20-80k on a billing system even Paul took the cheap route rather then coughing up for NATS. I wonder why he does not offer cascading billing or alternate processing choices for affiliates. The king of the porn industry should know that CCbill scrubs harder then everyone else.

Well you would think the king of the porn industry would realize that, but then again he also can't understand what the problem is concerning his retention either - which IMHO is as clear as day (I posted it in another thread). Someone just needs to quit living their life as an Ostrich and start listening to others, because although he say he does, it's clear as day he does not. Paul is a content producer, that's what he knows and that's what he should stick with and hire someone to do the rest, because his logic where suggestions and the obvious are concerned are not very logical and because of that, it is going to be the biggest part of his downfall in this industry.

Nice piece of hidden spam there Varzi!

lol

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by Tuula

Don't say that line anymore, you're starting to sound like someone we know!

Sorry

Oh no
I hope that it's not ScreaM

[Tuula]

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

Oh no
I hope that it's not ScreaM

no someone worse I'll give you a hint, his name is in the title of this thread lol

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Tuula

no someone worse I'll give you a hint, his name is in the title of this thread lol

oh noes!

[Head Boy]

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

"It's the industries insistence to sell a $30 x 30 day recurring membership to a guy looking for 20 minutes worth of porn that's killing the industry. Meet the customers needs before someone else does."

OK, so what do you think the fallacies are in this statement?

btw - I don't agree with it for at least 3 reasons.

[Tuula]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

oh noes!

lol come on Alex you know that infamous line lol ... backpeddling as often as possible ;o) hehe

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Head Boy

OK, so what do you think the fallacies are in this statement?

btw - I don't agree with it for at least 3 reasons.

1) For the most part, nobody sells single pieces of chewing gum anymore. When I grew up, there was plenty of penny candy we could get, including bazooka bubble gum. Almost every corner store had bins of penny candy by the cash so kids could annoy their parents into buying them a piece. I don't see that very often anymore. Now they have $1.50 chocolate bars, and other $3-$10 items crowding around.

2) The objective isn't to just meet customer needs - it is to exceed them and sell them what they didn't even know they needed until you TOLD THEM. Otherwise, there would be no Starbucks, just 101 generic coffee stands.

3) A significant factor in any business is selling the customer enough product to justify being in business. Selling them 30 days is better than trying to sell them 1 day 30 times, because it is likely the customer wouldn't always buy your porn. At the end of the day, you write off your costs to acquire the client, the cost to run the site, the cost to make the tour, the cost the produce the content over a 30 day window instead of a 1 day window.

Realistically, if you were selling 1 day membership (no recur) you would likely have to charge something like half a monthly membership to make up for the losses you would have not getting the other 29 days of the sale (and the 29 other days of potential upselling inside your membership site).

[Head Boy]

I agree with 2 and 3, but I'm not sure about 1. I hear what you are saying, but you could sell a $1 membership, and then sell them VOD minutes. That could end up giving you a higher monthly take.

I think one of the big advantages of the 30 day membership is that the surfer is likely to return if he's already paid for it. That gives you a chance to sell him some more stuff whilst he is in a protected environment.

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Realistically, if you were selling 1 day membership (no recur) you would likely have to charge something like half a monthly membership to make up for the losses you would have not getting the other 29 days of the sale (and the 29 other days of potential upselling inside your membership site).

My idea is not to sell one day memberships or lower cost monthly memberships.. my idea is to qualify more buyers and get more out of them.

There are two kinds of porn surfer- those who will pay and those who won't. The ones who will are not easily impressed and so even they will rarely bring out the old money clip.


But focusing on $30 memberships really gets us stuck, new car dealerships, they don't always make so much selling a new car but normal people are stupid enough to finance through them and buy dealer extras and they don't know about dealer rebates / incentives they think factory invoice is what the dealer paid for the car..

They could:

A: Only worry about profit on new cars, make $200-$5000 on every car. Keep the doors open and the salesmen paid.

B: Make the $200-$5000 plus $3000 in dealer extra BS plus $5000-$10,000 on the financing plus another $7000 in warranty repairs over the life of the vehicle plus another $1000-$2000 in routine maintenence plus another average $500 per unit built in profit from postcards they send out soliciting new business with incentives for the customer to refer someone and on and on and on and on AND ON..

We need to learn to be on side B
Affiliates, we cannot be.
Even the most well meaning program owner cannot afford to cut us in on everything.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Head Boy

The "one hit, milk the surfer" attitude of sponsors pisses me off. It's my traffic, and it's been sent to the sponsor for him to sell his pay site. If anyone is going to try to max on the income from that surfer, it should be me. It's not for some crappy site manager to fuck around with my customers, and give me vague promises of riches in the future.

That is why I make my own tour pages and my own promos. I send my traffic right to the sponsor's signup page. Which is the only thing I can't dublicate on my end but with even that I still do a little customization.

This is also why it is important for affiliates to create a site that you own that you send traffic to, and from there they select a sponsor. This way you retain and control your visitors and even if they try one of the sponsors listed on your site they will still come back to you.

[will76]

Originally Posted by pam

Not for my traffic it's not. If you have highly targeted niche traffic with many years of it, they don't want to watch some anonymous young, shaved girl on cam. They want what they want and won't settle for less. It would be tantamount to putting on free twink cam signups on a mature bear site.

I'd never try to sell of the traffic to those crappy ads, either. None of those ads are niche oriented and it's simply a waste of my real estate and my surfers' time.

I do own a site that is focused on getting them to come back and it's been up for a quite a while, and works. I put on some links outside the niche like Fleshlight, toys, Viagra-type meds, etc, but don't overwhelm them .... the info is there for them to click on if they wish.

It's all about knowing your traffic and where they are from.

Pam you do know that I am speaking in general terms. I assumed you knew this but I guess I need to point it out because after every time I make a post you reply " not in my case". Your highly niched site probably doesn't apply of things I am saying, but I can assure you that what I am saying applies in 95% of the cases.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Tuula

Well you would think the king of the porn industry would realize that, but then again he also can't understand what the problem is concerning his retention either - which IMHO is as clear as day (I posted it in another thread). Someone just needs to quit living their life as an Ostrich and start listening to others, because although he say he does, it's clear as day he does not. Paul is a content producer, that's what he knows and that's what he should stick with and hire someone to do the rest, because his logic where suggestions and the obvious are concerned are not very logical and because of that, it is going to be the biggest part of his downfall in this industry.

Nice piece of hidden spam there Varzi!

lol

He thinks the solution to the problem is a 3 day membership for $5 that doesn't rebill.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Head Boy

OK, so what do you think the fallacies are in this statement?

btw - I don't agree with it for at least 3 reasons.

Whats wrong with this? "It's the industries insistence to sell a $30 x 30 day recurring membership to a guy looking for 20 minutes worth of porn that's killing the industry. Meet the customers needs before someone else does."

1. It's not true for starters. A LOT of sites offer trial memberships, 3 days for $2.95 or 1 day for $1 or even free access. SO no one is being forced into a 30 day membership or being forced to rebill into one.

2. If a guy is looking for 20 mins of porn to jerk off, he's not your potential customer anyway. At least not to your monhtly membership site. If that is all he needs to get off right now he is likely to find that for free.

3. Meeting the customer's needs has very little to do with the price of your site, it has everything to do with what you are trying to sell them.

[Francis]

Originally Posted by will76

He thinks the solution to the problem is a 3 day membership for $5 that doesn't rebill.

Yeah that makes no sense at all, you gotta rebill at the least for that rate! I'm gonna have to go back and read through this thread, Tuula was talkin to me bout it earlier.

[Francis]

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

"It's the industries insistence to sell a $30 x 30 day recurring membership to a guy looking for 20 minutes worth of porn that's killing the industry. Meet the customers needs before someone else does."

That's not the industry's insistence that's just in Paul's head I don't know any dudes that just want 20 mins of porn from a chick, it's like if you like a chick in real life are you just gonna bang her for 20 mins then leave and never see her again? No you're not and that's what alot of these guys are thinkin in their heads.

[Francis]

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

"Netpond is an environment where people are exposed to selling & marketing tips but there is nothing here about creating a product or brand."

That's a juicy motherfucker of a statement..
I really like that realization..
It's not just Netpond, it's most all boards are that way.\

In any other business it is ALL ABOUT creating a brand- one of the first things considered by a businesses marketing department.. it's obviously not the same for us as affiliates, though, except for those of us who ride on the coat tails of a large brand promoting it.. but if the brand name does the selling, in this business, in that case it's usually too saturated already.. interesting.

From what I've read over the years about Paul he's too busy focusing on branding himself and not the girls on the site, I don't care how long he's been shooting teen pussy, I don't care who he is either, I just want to see teen pussy (I don't like teens) but as a guy I don't really give a shit about what another guy thinks about a babe, if I wanna see her I'm gonna see her. He needs to focus more on branding his models and not himself, tons of guys know about the lightspeed girls because they were branded as their own entity kinda like the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders when they were all the hype back in the day.

[Francis]

Originally Posted by pam

BINGO. I've had some of the same customers since 1993. They are loyal. They will buy something I recommend without reading about it because I won't bullshit them. They know they get quality from me, so keep coming back for more.

Talk to them on a forum, let them get to know you, let them feel a connection and they will have no qualms about opening their wallets. If they comment on your blog, comment back. Let them know you are listening to what they have to say.

Yup that's one of the most important things in this business (any business) making alot of contact with your customers and once you build up a rep with them you can sell them just about anything and they'll buy it. Tuula and I live out in the burbs but our office is in Burnaby she won't buy anything where we live everything she buys is in Burnaby because everywhere she shops every single store owner knows her by name and they give her preferred treatment. Last week we went out for breakfast restaurant was packed and people were waiting to get in they sat us within 2 mins and served us within 15 mins. Business owners that show regular customers preferred treatment will always do well in business.

[Francis]

Originally Posted by Head Boy

Some of us try to create threads about marketing and market research, but we end up getting trashed by the supporters of the hoary old concepts. I'm a bit disappointed that nobody is interested in my thread about the possible decline in the role of the affiliate for example.

That's why i just don't bother creating biz threads, I know my wife has done some but they always seem to sink pretty quick. Seems like the only time we get some good biz discusssions goin lately is because of topics like this or the epic cash thread.

[Head Boy]

Originally Posted by will76

2. If a guy is looking for 20 mins of porn to jerk off, he's not your potential customer anyway. At least not to your monhtly membership site. If that is all he needs to get off right now he is likely to find that for free.

Every porn surfer is a potential customer.

Some are more resistant to paying than others, and we make this worse rather than trying to break down his resistance.