Interesting discovery on Tube sites and how much they value their traffic.

[seeandsee]

I agree with LB, from my own experience of tube site traffic 1:100 - 1:200 is the norm.

I can't say this, ratios are very bad for me, but again it's easy to get lot of traffic... Is that ratio with some custom videos or just videos from webmaster member area?

[Panky]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Both will send a lot of traffic to our paysite that will not convert very well.

If both of them would send traffic to your paysite that would not convert very well, why would they want to purchase the content then? As an affiliate, they get the content for free and can use it as filler and/or the chance they may earn sales from it. If they buy the content outright, there's a chance they will not make their money back. As you say, " both will send a lot of traffic to our paysite that will not convert very well." Maybe it isn't that they don't want to buy content, but that they aren't sure your content will work with their site? Maybe they choose to invest their money in other areas or in content they know they have a better than average chance of turning a profit? It doesn't necessarily mean they aren't prepared to buy content for the price paysites are willing to pay for it.

[nottslad]

Originally Posted by seeandsee

I can't say this, ratios are very bad for me, but again it's easy to get lot of traffic... Is that ratio with some custom videos or just videos from webmaster member area?

Just normal videos provided for affiliates. I always found that there wasn't a lot of traffic, most of it was typeins rather than clicked, but that traffic always performed well.

I stopped submitting about 6 months ago or more, but still get a sale every couple of days from archived stuff and it's still in the 1:100-200 range.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by _LB_

Actually my friend .. if you are after some of your 'full length' video clips they can be found on some of the pay for membership tube sites.

Was just giving some examples ... eg 84 clips .. average of probably 2 mins each is a lot of videos for someone who denounces tube traffic.


I get conversions of around 1:40-1:200 on wanktube for my videos. Get that on tgp. There is less clicks to be had, but its highly targeted traffic.

I would love to know where they are, guess I'll have to go look. Can you point me in the right direction please?

Maybe I should try your site again, but if your surfers like my stuff and convert that well take the affiliates deal and content, you win both ways then. more content for your site the members like and money on the sign ups. Win, win situation.

Will these are top 100 sites.

Anyone who still thinks I'm talking about affiliates clips is obviously not bothered to read the thread. FOR THE LAST TIME IT'S NOT AFFILIATES CLIPS THEY WANT TO BUY OR STOLEN VIDEOS THEY WANT TO HAVE IN THEIR MEMBERS AREA. Sorry for the caps but the flamers are not reading it before they flame. Further proof that first impressions count. Don't ask me to explain it, not my job to educate flamers.

[Georgie]

Wanktube doesn't like me. On several occasions over a period of weeks I tried to upload MY content (I own it, shot it, using it for promotional purposes) and their server always timed out with a not found after about 15-20 seconds. I was getting the idea the upload feature didn't actually work.

[ScreaM]

Originally Posted by Georgie

Wanktube doesn't like me. On several occasions over a period of weeks I tried to upload MY content (I own it, shot it, using it for promotional purposes) and their server always timed out with a not found after about 15-20 seconds. I was getting the idea the upload feature didn't actually work.

You might want to talk to _LB_.

[Georgie]

Since he's posting in this thread maybe he'll see it. In the past I've looked all around for a contact e-mail, but most of the links along the bottom to pages (except to advertising, which actually looks pretty reasonable) are empty. So I was just going to wait for the site to fill out a bit.

I get decent traffic from Yuvutu, and they're sticklers regarding copyright and content. I've had several videos declined that I had to write back to them about. The users hate "pro" contributions, though. XTube was okay but the views are now really, really low. My guess is that they're pushing their DVD sales far more than in the past, so contributed videos aren't as likely to be seen. Too bad as they are Webmaster friendly.

[_LB_]

For wanktube with so many uploads happening at once (we are starting to ban the auto uploaders who just upload all day) ... larger clips don't really tend to make it through. I would keep them under 6mb max.

Easily enough for a few mins, but not sure you really want to go uploading 10+ min clips. Compressing them down helps too seeing as we compress them server side anyway so high quality gets reduced anyhow.

[RawAlex]

What everyone is missing is that the tube sites are already "passe" as far as mainstream companies are concerned, no longer wanting the amateur content or short pieces.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...tm?chan=search

Professional content is netting much higher adrates, to the point where they can in fact base a business model on it (at $50 per 1000 views, they can actually pay for bandwidth and a whole bunch more, where at < $10 per 1000 on the amateur stuff, they are money losers).

Porn tube sites face the massive problem of huge traffic and no income, and no clear way to turn that traffic into viable income. Even the "friendly" industry owned tube site owners are admitting that they are trading dollars for 95 cents, at best for 100 pennies. If nothing else, they have proven conclusively that traffic doesn't always mean income and profit.

[Georgie]

Originally Posted by _LB_

For wanktube with so many uploads happening at once (we are starting to ban the auto uploaders who just upload all day) ... larger clips don't really tend to make it through. I would keep them under 6mb max.

Easily enough for a few mins, but not sure you really want to go uploading 10+ min clips. Compressing them down helps too seeing as we compress them server side anyway so high quality gets reduced anyhow.

The size might have been it. I kept the length to about two minutes or less, but I used a higher bitrate to perserve quality (512kbps). These are WMV files. The clips tended to be in the 8-9 MB range. The "not found" would occur pretty early on in the process, though - always within 30 seconds.

I was disappointed, because not many of these tube sites are Webmaster friendly and have 2257 links. To me that indicates they're going to be around for a while.

Boysfood used to limit to 10 a day, then 3, and now I think they're up to 5. Personally I think 5 is too much. I think it should be no more than 2-3 day. Early on in the life of a tube site having unlimited uploads works out, as it fills up the inventory. But after that, it just diminishes the value for uploaders because the potential views plummets. Glad to hear you're working to limiting the egregious abusers.

[Georgie]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

What everyone is missing is that the tube sites are already "passe" as far as mainstream companies are concerned, no longer wanting the amateur content or short pieces.

Well the adult amateur tubes like Yuvutu have additional worries in that they never know when the next invasion of privacy lawsuit will hit them. There have been a few suits already, but nothing compared to what's going to happen, especially as many of the tubes steal from one another. A few of the sites have clips stolen from another tube, uploaded by "Admin." Real smart.

I watched as a "hidden" amateur clip (not mine) went from Yuvutu to Pornhub via another uploader, and then to yet another tube site, all in one day. If it is truly amateur and truly hidden, the woman in the video has a case against all of these tube sites. Her compensation could be in the hundreds of thousands, at least.

A business model of allowing user-contributed amateur sex content is no business, IMO. Pro content at least carries the suggestion there are model releases involved.

[RawAlex]

Georgie, if they cannot make the sites financially viable, then they won't be around very long, even with 2257 statements and such. The crowd of people they are attracting for the most part seems to be the leeches, sort of like mega-bad TGP traffic via a torrent site. I am betting these sites are VERY popular with highschool kids, sadly.

I suspect that most of those sites are taking in only a very few dollars per thousand videos shown, and are basically making minor money on volume at best. It only works because they aren't paying for content (they are getting others to upload it) and maintaining the sites in theory is almost all automated. If these sites wer actually validly paying for content and such, they would pretty much be, well, down the tubes.

Already sites like megarotic are strictly limiting the number of free videos given (and then they charge for extra downloads, which in effect is reselling content without a license, but that is another story).

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Georgie

Wanktube doesn't like me. On several occasions over a period of weeks I tried to upload MY content (I own it, shot it, using it for promotional purposes) and their server always timed out with a not found after about 15-20 seconds. I was getting the idea the upload feature didn't actually work.

A lot of them do that, you sit there fill in all the info go all through the process and then at the end it tells you to wait, you wait and then the video is corrupted or did not load. 20 minutes work for nothing. OK maybe 15, LOL.

Then of course there is the problem with your connection, I tried to give this to a person who would do it from home. Never worked at all. Even on the office connection it can be a problem.

That's why I offered LB to grab the clips or I can make a file with them all in and he can upload them via a ********.

[_LB_]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

That's why I offered LB to grab the clips or I can make a file with them all in and he can upload them via a ********.

Problem with that Paul is it takes time, and we have people uploading clips already. You would be surprised the number of sponsors who have asked if they can upload clips ... some even doing up to 50 a day!

If they want clips on there then they need to upload them themselves. It would be nice to have a different method of upload though ... maybe a server grab or something. I dunno... something to think about I suppose.

The number of people who spam the tubes is bad though. I am seriously considering going partner account at some stage and limiting the rest to 1 upload a day. Having trusted submitters cuts out all the stolen content crap too which to be honest is a pain in the ass to police.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by _LB_

Problem with that Paul is it takes time, and we have people uploading clips already. You would be surprised the number of sponsors who have asked if they can upload clips ... some even doing up to 50 a day!

If they want clips on there then they need to upload them themselves. It would be nice to have a different method of upload though ... maybe a server grab or something. I dunno... something to think about I suppose.

The number of people who spam the tubes is bad though. I am seriously considering going partner account at some stage and limiting the rest to 1 upload a day. Having trusted submitters cuts out all the stolen content crap too which to be honest is a pain in the ass to police.

Yes that's the problem too many people uploading at the same time. I can only speak from what I see and that's a lot of work for a very low return, on my site. I have other sources converting at excellent ratios and they cost me just the Rev Share. But if I sit and upload to Tube sites I get very poor traffic and poor ratios. Others sponsors do better.

Maybe a partner account is the way forward and if more pressure was put on the legality of what we do it would be all partner accounts. Did you see the new US law about copyright? Was on an article on YNOT.

[will76]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

What everyone is missing is that the tube sites are already "passe" as far as mainstream companies are concerned, no longer wanting the amateur content or short pieces.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...tm?chan=search

Professional content is netting much higher adrates, to the point where they can in fact base a business model on it (at $50 per 1000 views, they can actually pay for bandwidth and a whole bunch more, where at < $10 per 1000 on the amateur stuff, they are money losers).

Porn tube sites face the massive problem of huge traffic and no income, and no clear way to turn that traffic into viable income. Even the "friendly" industry owned tube site owners are admitting that they are trading dollars for 95 cents, at best for 100 pennies. If nothing else, they have proven conclusively that traffic doesn't always mean income and profit.

Like anything else, the million dollar question (or answer in this case) is to find a way to convert the traffic into buying something. You do that and you make millions, you don't you trade dollar for 100 pennies as you mentioned, or worse.

The problem with these sites are two fold.

1. The Porn indusrty thinks they can copy any mainstream idea and it will make money with porn too. It's not that easy. After myspace was real popular the big thing was trying to make an adult version. Same thing with blogs, people see mainstream blogs popular so the create and adult one slap a bunch of tgp pictures into an rss feed, call it a blog and actually think it is going to make them a lot of money. Now you have the tube craze. Youtube gets real popular and everyone is trying to open an adult tube but they don't know what the hell they are doing. They just take a youtube clone slap some porn in it and they think it is going to make them mad money like youtube.

take it a step further and look at the tube sites that have been successful with traffic, megarotic and youporn. People who created these sites have no clue about the adult industry, so they have it even worse on trying to figure out how to convert adult traffic. Look at megarotic, they have an AFF ad right before the video starts. that promo is total shit. They could have something 100% better than that.

2. No easy way to monitize the traffic. Mainstream sites have adsense and unlimited products you can offer on these type of sites. On the mainstream site the content people are viewing on the site is not conflicting with the product you are advertising. If you are watching a funny youtube video and you see a ring tone offer that is cool right ? If you are watching full length porn movie and see an advertisement to sign up to a video porn site, LOL whats the point ?

So you can go about this two ways, promote just cams and dating or only use 2 minute clips and upsell porn sites. Cams and Dating doesn't give you many options, and if you just offer 2 min clips then you might as well be a MGP /TGP and not bother. I don't think any of the 2 min clip type sites will stick around for long, they will go the same way as the current TGP type sites....

So the million dollar question is how do you make money off of them. If you figure that out than you will be a millionare because the model is proven to get you the traffic, you just need to figure out how to make money from it.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Georgie

Well the adult amateur tubes like Yuvutu have additional worries in that they never know when the next invasion of privacy lawsuit will hit them. There have been a few suits already, but nothing compared to what's going to happen, especially as many of the tubes steal from one another. A few of the sites have clips stolen from another tube, uploaded by "Admin." Real smart.

I watched as a "hidden" amateur clip (not mine) went from Yuvutu to Pornhub via another uploader, and then to yet another tube site, all in one day. If it is truly amateur and truly hidden, the woman in the video has a case against all of these tube sites. Her compensation could be in the hundreds of thousands, at least.

A business model of allowing user-contributed amateur sex content is no business, IMO. Pro content at least carries the suggestion there are model releases involved.

This is kind of off topic, but if someone makes a video of themselves, and uploads it to the internet for free. They are making it available to the public and I would think they would lose rights to it. On the other hand if the site they uploaded it to has something in their TOS saying they own the content and they watermark it, and another site grabs the content, removes the watermark etc.. than I think the orginal site might have a case. I am fairly certain if someone uploads an amateur video to the net to share with people on a public site, they lose any income rights to it, can't tell other sites not to use it, etc. 2257 makes eveything different to some degree, but generally speaking about user submitted content.

[will76]

Originally Posted by _LB_

Problem with that Paul is it takes time, and we have people uploading clips already. You would be surprised the number of sponsors who have asked if they can upload clips ... some even doing up to 50 a day!

If they want clips on there then they need to upload them themselves. It would be nice to have a different method of upload though ... maybe a server grab or something. I dunno... something to think about I suppose.

The number of people who spam the tubes is bad though. I am seriously considering going partner account at some stage and limiting the rest to 1 upload a day. Having trusted submitters cuts out all the stolen content crap too which to be honest is a pain in the ass to police.

What site do you own ? and when you allow sponsors to upload content what is the average length of the video ?

Is the deal pretty much a trade of sorts, they provide content for your tube that you don't need to pay for and you don't charge them for advertising ? do you use your affiliate id when you send them traffic ?


Thanks in advance.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

What everyone is missing is that the tube sites are already "passe" as far as mainstream companies are concerned, no longer wanting the amateur content or short pieces.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...tm?chan=search

Professional content is netting much higher adrates, to the point where they can in fact base a business model on it (at $50 per 1000 views, they can actually pay for bandwidth and a whole bunch more, where at < $10 per 1000 on the amateur stuff, they are money losers).

Porn tube sites face the massive problem of huge traffic and no income, and no clear way to turn that traffic into viable income. Even the "friendly" industry owned tube site owners are admitting that they are trading dollars for 95 cents, at best for 100 pennies. If nothing else, they have proven conclusively that traffic doesn't always mean income and profit.

Very very interesting. Let me offer a thought on the porn side. not sure if it's right from everyones perspective, just my views.

The guy looking for real and true amateur porn content has a tough job finding it. Like many small niches. He finds a little bit on Tube sites and the viewing figures are fantastic, lots of people looking for an under supplied niche. The few paysites with it do well, but monetising the traffic for the rest or us is tough. we do better with pro content to pro sites.

So why don't more sites open to supply the niche? There are a few with real amateur but not enough and it's an avenue more can exploit. However the problem is getting the content. When we content producers find a girl who will have sex in front of the camera it's more profitable to produce more content. Producing an "amateur" scene simply does not pay AS WELL. Note I said "as well".

Shooting bad quality images is simple, shooting models trying to earn money as if they are fucking for fun is a bit more demanding. But can be done. Pay me $1500 for a scene and I will shoot an average looking girl fucking her boyfriend in an amateur scene. If you want an amateur scene of a girl and boy like our "Petra and Micheal" content pay me $25,000 and I will shoot it. Because that's what a scene of those two is worth. And that's the bottom line, the content can be shot if the market can afford it.

Different point.

On the Tube sites we often have enough to jerk off to which is the aim of the vast majority of porn consumers. So from there some try to sell a 30 day $30 membership, is that good marketing?

Purchased porn is a luxury convenience item, watching it on a Tube site is neither luxury or convenient. Quality is low, search is tough and the downloading can be a nightmare. But to how many Tube site surfers is it worth paying $30 for?

Are we targeting the wrong product at the right buyer? And the right product at the right buyer.