Why do we accept shaving?

[neak]

It doesn't seem to be talked about much but I've never understood why everyone seems to accept the idea of sponsors shaving well earned sales from webmasters?

Isn't it the same as your work not paying you for 3 days worth of work at the end of the month. If that happened, a lot of people would speak up about it.

Just a bit confused as to why people think it's okay for sponsors to do that.

[RageCash-Ben]

Who is shaving ?

[ScreaM]

They have to make money some how

[BadWolf]

Actually, it's been talked about to death.

Again and again and again. And I never see proof, just accusations.

[Kamilla]

That's because we as affiliates don't have access to program admins. So ofcource that makes it hard to prove. All you can do is go with your gut feeling.

[BadWolf]

My gut feeling is that there are shady programs out there. That's life, someone is always trying to get over on other people.

It's not the same as saying the entire industry is shaving.....but that's just my newbie opinion, lol.

[Kamilla]

I don't know how many that are shaving and I can't find out. But I do see the various leaks on tours. And I belive alot of programs claim to offer a revshare and a pps program, when infact they offer rev and ppA (pay per active). That would explain why I so often get decent ratio on their revshare, but bad ratio on their so-called pps program (read how others have had the same experince as well). Even if there are some program who explain that their program pays per active, they still advertise it as pps.
I find that more troublesome than shaving because it seems to be more common.

My 2 gutfeeling cents ofcourse lol

[Greg B]

I agree with Bad Wolf. There are some shady and downright dishonest and incompetently run programs out there but that's just human nature. As long as we are dependent upon one another for a service we'll run into such problems. You have to be vigilant and use community forums like this one to keep tabs on things. Keep an eye on the court cases and if contacted by the authorities regarding a program you're using that they feel is shakey, then don't hesitate to cooperate.

Thieves eventually always get caught. Reason being they get sloppy and often rip off more than the wrong person or don't give their co-horts their cut. There's always some detective or cop or investigator that just won't give up. Sooner or later something will emerge. We just shouldn't run around blindly accusing programs of shaving because of our own inability to sell or competently apply the procedures and technologies and resources at hand.

Auditing will turn up shaving if it exists at a company and there are certain legal procedures you the affiliate can do to initiate these procedures in a fair and efficient manner.

[N/A]

We don't accept it but without any proof what can anyone do?

[Kamilla]

Originally Posted by Greg B

We just shouldn't run around blindly accusing programs of shaving because of our own inability to sell or competently apply the procedures and technologies and resources at hand.

I hardly ever see anyone making accusations they can't backup. People post their ratio and ask others to post theirs. And in every thread there's always those who can't sell the sponsor to save their life, while others have good results. I think we all know that's just the nature of the business and a bad ratio doesn't mean shaving.

[Head Boy]

Why do sponsors need to shave when they can rip off affiliates with leaks and signup diversions?

[ristac]

LOL I got to the 9th comment and could not believe I hadn't seen Head Boy in here yet

Not so much the case now but I do remember in the past screaming at a sponsor why were my sign-ups so poor (in fact ZERO) yet I had sent x amount of traffic... Next day I had a couple of sign-ups, needless to say I waited for the cheque and changed sponsor, coincidence?

[hardcoreblogger]

how could you ever prove they shave, you'd have to have access to their admin...

even when i "know" a sponsor shaves me i can't prove it, so i just pull my traffic quietly. let the $$$ speak

but of course shaving doesn't even exist. LB or another program owner will be here soon to inform us about that...

[seeandsee]

I can't know do they shave, only if i don't pull out cc and test them and even then maybe they don't shave that time so wtf. if they convert for you, what you can do then send them more traffic when you don't know they shave.

[Rofl]

Do you know how much your bank makes on its investments, and how much it gives to you in interest?

Does it really cost $25 admin to send you a letter?

Is you insurance broker really taking just 5%, or could it be 10 or 20?

Is that pie in the supermarket really all organic, or did something slip in there and avoid the labelling?

Wherever you look, there is potential to fuck you over, but as long as the checks keep coming, I guess ya can't complain too much!

[Kamilla]

Originally Posted by Rofl

Wherever you look, there is potential to fuck you over, but as long as the checks keep coming, I guess ya can't complain too much!

I will never understand this kind of attitude. As long as you get paid for some of your traffic and sales, let them keep what they steal?
Then why was RetardoB banned?? You got some of the traffic you paid for, so there was no problem then...

[Rofl]

Well... the problem is catching any shavers.

Im all for anyone getting irrevocably caught red handed being outed, but whilst the best we can come up with is "i think they MIGHT be shaving" I would rather spend my time trying out new sponsors and finding ones that pay.

I know (read: presume) that banking executives take (or give) back handers, I SUSPECT that oil companies keep back new greener technology to get the most out of what oil is left, but I NEED banking services and I NEED oil to drive my car, so I will utter a cheer when someone gets caught, but it doesn't stop me using the services.

And these are industries WITH watchdogs.

One 'issue' with the adult biz is that there is no watchdog to catch these fuckers out and make them accountable when they are. But then, we know that the governing body would be corruptible too... so, what are we to do?

[msanchez]

Originally Posted by hardcoreblogger

how could you ever prove they shave, you'd have to have access to their admin...

even when i "know" a sponsor shaves me i can't prove it, so i just pull my traffic quietly. let the $$$ speak

but of course shaving doesn't even exist. LB or another program owner will be here soon to inform us about that...

Perfectly said IMO

[Panky]

Originally Posted by neak

It doesn't seem to be talked about much but I've never understood why everyone seems to accept the idea of sponsors shaving well earned sales from webmasters?

Isn't it the same as your work not paying you for 3 days worth of work at the end of the month. If that happened, a lot of people would speak up about it.

Just a bit confused as to why people think it's okay for sponsors to do that.

Affiliates don't accept shaving. The problem lies in proving a program is shaving their affiliates.

There was a program a few years ago called PiBB Cash that got caught cheating their affiliates. The program got outed and closed the doors.

There is an ongoing legal issue right now with a program who has not paid any of their affiliates for past money earned.

So it is not that affiliates just bend over, spread their cheeks, and take it up the ass. It is all about obtaining the proof needed to take the next step. Considering that affiliates do not have access to admin areas, accounting records, and the likes, the proof needed isn't always easy to come by. However, once an affiliate has a case, it isn't long before the word gets out, lawsuits are filed, and the process begins.

[msanchez]

I know for awhile after PIB Cash was outed, their sites and affiliate program were still active, and I signed up and sent some traffic and even a few sales without knowing the issues. As I look today its good to see they are parked pages now so no one else gets burned.