Are we dooming ourselves?

[neak]

Am I right in my calculations in that petrol/gas is about half the price of what it is in the UK?

[joneze]

The middle class is going to die off.

There will be the working poor and the stinking rich.

[Globofun]

We are already doomed.....this is just the sad beginning of it all!

[SleazyBear]

My point was not about bitching about the cost of gas, my point was how are people makeing it. I was more looking for an answer than for bitching about price. The lawn care guys come by tomorrow I think I will set down and talk with them and see how there dealing with everything..

[thebes]

I totally think that most people are being led around with a ring through their nose. Thats why I live as far as practical from them. Actually though, its more like they are sheep than bulls on parade.

Its about squeezing out the middle class, which is necessary to secure corporate and governmental power. The middle class has always been the ones demanding rights and liberty- the rich have money and power enough to rarely need respect for their rights, and the poor worry too much about eating to protest or rise up unless they can truly no longer eat. No place for the middle class in the New World Order or New American Century or whatever else our powerful elite would-be overlords call it.

[_LB_]

Until people are willing to use public transport, are prepared to walk or use a bike occasionally, and don't insist on using a 5 seater car to drive only themselves to and from work things will just get worse.

We hardly drive anymore, walk a lot, and slum it with public transport when possible and while everyone else is bitching and moaning about almost $2 per litre, we haven't noticed it at all. We turn lights off, we turn appliances off and dont take 20 minute showers. We also recycle, and try to cut down on excess packaging and plastic packed crap.

Shame most people still aren't willing to change their lifestyle, but hey you can't point at us when the shit hits the fan

[Dupont]

Originally Posted by mihai

Stop complaining about gas beeing high priced at $4/gallon...
I pay $1.5/liter which is about 5.7/gallon...
And is crappy CO95...

Here it`s 1.40 a liter.. americans have it good, yet they seem to be complaining the most

[thebes]

One thing _LB_ with public transportation. In much of the US, the automotive industry succeeded in killing public transportation back in the 1950's. Unless you are in an urban area, or lucky, there may be no transportation.

Here, I would need to bike 15 miles or more, or else stick out my thumb and hitchhike. Of course, I only go into town a couple times a week so even my 4x4 isn't too expensive for gas- car insurance is still a bigger expense and they don't care how few miles I drive I still pay the same.

[tigermom]

Originally Posted by _LB_

Until people are willing to use public transport, are prepared to walk or use a bike occasionally, and don't insist on using a 5 seater car to drive only themselves to and from work things will just get worse.

We hardly drive anymore, walk a lot, and slum it with public transport when possible and while everyone else is bitching and moaning about almost $2 per litre, we haven't noticed it at all. We turn lights off, we turn appliances off and dont take 20 minute showers. We also recycle, and try to cut down on excess packaging and plastic packed crap.

Shame most people still aren't willing to change their lifestyle, but hey you can't point at us when the shit hits the fan

What he said. Some people on this thread complain and mention that they have more than one car... My family of four only has one single car, and it's smaller than your average American SUV or whatever. My husband commutes to work everyday like this - cycling to the train station, then a train journey and finally a short bus ride. A bit of a hassle, but much cheaper and more environmentally responsible than having a second car.

From here, it seems like some Americans think spending tons of gas is one of their constitutional rights. Well, we're all residents of the same planet, and there's only so much oil/gas in the reserves. Even destroying all the wildlife in Alaska (sounds like fun - I suggest nuking them), in the end, you're going to run out of oil. Time to save, act responsibly and think about alternative energy resources, IMO.

[tigermom]

Originally Posted by thebes

One thing _LB_ with public transportation. In much of the US, the automotive industry succeeded in killing public transportation back in the 1950's. Unless you are in an urban area, or lucky, there may be no transportation.

Here, I would need to bike 15 miles or more, or else stick out my thumb and hitchhike. Of course, I only go into town a couple times a week so even my 4x4 isn't too expensive for gas- car insurance is still a bigger expense and they don't care how few miles I drive I still pay the same.

Well, eventually, Americans will have to huddle together in more compact towns, like most people in the Western world do. Distances cost money to cover, I guess?

[_LB_]

Originally Posted by tigermom

From here, it seems like some Americans think spending tons of gas is one of their constitutional rights.

Yeah I see that attitude both here a bit and also in Aus. Though with the price of fuel they are starting to realise that they will have no choice soon. Make fuel $4 a litre for all i care, and put the extra revenue into public transport infrastructure. But no .. everyone needs 1 car and a 4 wheel drive to drive round the corner to the shops in.

[_LB_]

Originally Posted by thebes

One thing _LB_ with public transportation. In much of the US, the automotive industry succeeded in killing public transportation back in the 1950's. Unless you are in an urban area, or lucky, there may be no transportation.

On my 6 or so trips over there I have noticed that !! If you dont have a car you have no chance of getting anywhere ... I was amazed at the total lack of public transport like busses or trains !

Why do you think that is?

[rvince]

Originally Posted by SleazyBear

With the cost of going to work, and groceries, how are people living, are we dooming ourselves to a point where it would be cheaper for people to just stay home and collect welfare? I really don't see the point in trying to make a living when you don't make enough to live.

We're already there in France:

Average factory-worker salary: 1000EUR.
Welfare for a couple with 3 kids: 1150EUR + free health-care + free bus/subway + many tax cuts and little advantages.

Not surprisingly, in France we have one of the highest unemployment rate of Europe. (althought it doesn't appear in the official stats because people on welfare are not counted as unemployed people).

I'm sure it will sound like a joke, but I swear it's serious: The government is working on a new welfare system (named RSA) which is supposed to "Compensate the moneyless for people on welfare who would be loosing money by getting back a job".

[pam]

Why work for minimum wage when you can go on Welfare and make just as much? I have a friend who is on Disability for "anxiety" -- he was in a car accident 8 years ago and is perfectly fine to me. He's able to do mechanic work on cars and has bought nearly 30 cars during his "disability" and repair them and resell them to make cash under the table. He admits it's easier to collect his check and food stamps each month than think of working a real job.

They aren't making it, Sleazy -- that's the problem. People working 2/3 jobs and not getting ahead. People without a clue buying houses and not knowing about mortgage rates and now paying $3k a month instead of the $1k month they originally paid.

Everywhere I go people are complaining about high prices. Yet go by ANY restaurant for dinner and the parking lot is packed. The economy is suffering but people still manage to go out to eat and build up those credit cards

[neak]

Originally Posted by pam

Why work for minimum wage when you can go on Welfare and make just as much? I have a friend who is on Disability for "anxiety" -- he was in a car accident 8 years ago and is perfectly fine to me. He's able to do mechanic work on cars and has bought nearly 30 cars during his "disability" and repair them and resell them to make cash under the table. He admits it's easier to collect his check and food stamps each month than think of working a real job.

I know someone that gets $400 a week because she claimed to have depression, although is completely fine, lazy if anything. It makes me sick that we have to support people like that. Why should I support someone elses lazy lifestyle?

[hardcoreblogger]

imho the short reply to your question sleazy is that low-to mid-level employees who have no prospect or willingness of running an own business are really fucking doomed! the system will continue to squeeze them to the last drop.

Originally Posted by trinityintrigue

You are correct, but missed one thing. If we were to tell the damn animal activists like greenpeace to shove it up their ass, we could drill in alaska, and many other places in the US, where there is PLENTY of oil.

Or, quit sending food/supplies relief to OPEC ran countries. That will either 1. cause the oil companies running gas/refinery costs too damn high and running market WINDFALL profits every quarter, to lower their prices or
2. cause the people WORKING in those facilities to riot because they can't get the food/supplies they need to survive.

you get first prize for most ignorant post. sure, we just need to drill more, that'll solve all problems. sounds like your lame duck president's recipe. haha and you really think the rich opec countries need your food relief?

Originally Posted by thebes

Its about squeezing out the middle class, which is necessary to secure corporate and governmental power. The middle class has always been the ones demanding rights and liberty- the rich have money and power enough to rarely need respect for their rights, and the poor worry too much about eating to protest or rise up unless they can truly no longer eat. No place for the middle class in the New World Order or New American Century or whatever else our powerful elite would-be overlords call it.

yup exactly. it's up to all of us (mostly middle class folks) not to continue to give them the power anymore!

Originally Posted by rvince

The government is working on a new welfare system (named RSA) which is supposed to "Compensate the moneyless for people on welfare who would be loosing money by getting back a job".

LMAO this cracked me up mate, quite unbelievable to which extremes the french social system goes.

[Greg B]

What we're going through now we've gone through several times since the early 70's. We had oil problems then and here we are almost 40 years later having never solved those problems. Only one reason for that, it's a controlled problem that benefits some but not all. Your fellow human being has no problems fucking you over so don't hold your breath waiting for a solution.

We've got many technologies that could make our lives easier and more equitable but they get suppressed. New energy technologies, medical advances, even using hemp again as the country's top agricultural product has been suppressed. Try to bring them to the fore and you get bumped off or tossed into jail.

We're dealing with criminal mindsets on a mass scale and every day more people join their ranks. Humans are easy to frighten and control. Worst of all humans have an innate fear of ridicule even when they're right. That one fear is the source of the sheepishness. People would rather die than have other people's opinions of them turn bad. It's a pack animal instinct and is our greatest Achille's Heel.

That's why aliens won't land. They know we're retarded.

[Hentaikid]

Fucking up Alaska won't fix anything in the long term, time to start building more nuclear station, even greenpeace realizes that.

As for America's problems, they all seem to be mainly self inflicted, I'm sorry to say, keep electing people like Bush...

[Greg B]

No we don't need any more nuclear power plants. We've had two that we know of fuck up already and those are the ones we know about. A culture that still believes in fairies and ghosts should not be dabbling with nuclear fucking power.

Sleazy Bear, in short, the future we envisioned for ourselves where we had flying cars and moving sidewalks and talking dogs who can't pronounce their 'R's and 'W's and 'G's and 'L's did not come to pass. Flying jetpacks, vacationing on the Moon. Not gonna happen. Whatever we hoped for went to shit and that's due to the use of psychiatric drugging/mind control experiments, narcotics,alcohol, and politicians and law enforcement officials who just can't stay away from boys.

30% of Americans still think George Bush is doing a great job. If that doesn't scare the fuck out of you nothing will. We have far too many mentally ill people amongst our populace and it doesn't get any more complicated than that.

Oh, and we don't breed for smarts, we breed for looks and convenience. Go figure, we're doomed.

[gamemint]

I cut back alot of things ...