PAL DV help please

[david123]

Hi Guys!

I'm a newbie here. I wondered the net for answers to my problem, but no luck so far. I truly hope that I can find some answers from other encoders in the business. I myself just started encoding videos for resale in a content store, but stuck on some questions.

What's the most common way to convert PAL DV (or any DV) to WMV for online viewing?

When converting PAL DV (non-square pixel) to WMV (square pixel), distortions/cuts occur. How do you combat that (if at all)?

Do you keep it 720x576 with the black border on the top and bottom? Or you stretch the picture out?
Does it matter that the original 4:3 aspect ratio changes if you keep it at 720x576?

Do you convert to proper square pixels to 768x576 and leave the black border on top and bottom, or stretch it?

A related question: what formats are most widely made available? WMV for sure, but what about Flash, MPEG 1, Quicktime, DIVX, XVID, IPOD, PSP, 3GP, 3G2, etc?



Thanks

David
the video geek

[seeandsee]

A related question: what formats are most widely made available? WMV for sure, but what about Flash, MPEG 1, Quicktime, DIVX, XVID, IPOD, PSP, 3GP, 3G2, etc?

Flv (flash - tube sites) . mpeg, aiv and wmv. Ipod mp4 is coming big door.

[david123]

thanks seeandsee for the input. So I can focus on Flash, WMV and mpg.

[SleazyBear]

try a program called SUPER © it should do everthing u want to

[david123]

Yep. Tested that too. I tested quite a lot of these encoding softwares.

Still, the main question is how to sell PAL DV content? In 720x576 or 768x576? The video stretched or the black border on top and bottom kept?

If all the webmasters don't even know what I am talking about, then that means that they just convert to something with black borders, most likely 720x756. Or....

I mean, if you are a webmaster and want to purchase videos that came from DV (PAL in our case, but that doesn't matter), what would you like to see your video in? Don't say "the best possible".. of course. But there are a few best end results, such as 768x576 (square pixels, 4:3, with black border), or 720x576 (square pixels, 5:4, with black border). Or is there something with a lower resolution that is common amongst webmasters? If so, what is it and why use it (since it means throwing away video quality).

Thanks
David

[neak]

PAL DV doesn't refer to the ratio, it means it's at 25 frames per second and it's DV quality. Just crop the footage to 16:9 looks much nicer that way

[david123]

Hi Neak,

PAL DV, as it comes off as raw AVI from a DV tape usually comes off as 720x576, with a 4:3 aspect ratio and an 1.0926 pixel aspect ratio, and interlaced. I agree that from a certain aspect PAL DV just means that it is lower pixel count in a smaller frame, but when it comes to converting these PAL DV footages into the best format for online viewing, I personally take into consideration the things I seeked answers to. It could be that I am too much of a perfectionist, and that I am not a webmaster, which is why I can't decide on the best encoding format. I mean, if most webmasters just capture their DV footage via any editing software, then without worrying about settings, just encode it into WMV or some other format, then that means that they are converting it into a 720x576 with square pixels, and with the black border on top and bottom (kinda widescreen feeling but it isn't that). Or.... some other frame size perhaps? See, this is the question I am seeking the answer to.

As for cropping a PAL DV into real widescreen, I don't know. Personally I'd never do that, because I lose a good amount of my footage.

I don't know, I could be wrong about the above, so if you could tell how you crop to widescreen, that would be greatly appreciated? Do you do this with all your DV footage?

Thanks
David

[david123]

I forgot. You are right, PAL DV comes out as 25fps progressive (50 interlaced). This of course has to be fixed into 25fps progressive for computer display.

[Georgie]

Originally Posted by david123

I forgot. You are right, PAL DV comes out as 25fps progressive (50 interlaced). This of course has to be fixed into 25fps progressive for computer display.

That's irrelevent because WMV is a single-field format. In fact, you'd want to be sure to select the Deinterlace option in your editing program to avoid frield artifacts.

For a multi-field video format (like MPEG2) any interlace conversion is done in the video renderer (part of the Windows media system) before going to the display. It's not something you have to be concerned about. For simply viewing (as opposed to converting) that kind of content your DVD driver software or Windows itself takes care of it.

Correcting for pixel dimensions (square, etc.), adjusting aspect ratio, and other functions of conversion are part of any *good* video editing program. If the program you're using now doesn't have these features you need to keep looking for one that does.

[david123]

Hi Georgie,

Your input is much appreciated.

I've been using Sony Vegas for editing, but that in itself is irrelevant (probably the easiest to use and still does a good job at editing). Even Vegas, if I wanted to export into WMV, would give me the option to do anything I want: stretch the video to fill the screen of any output pixel I want, leave the black border on top and bottom (which 'appears' when you convert into square pixels), or whatever size video I want (720x576, 768x576, etc.)
TMPGEnc allows for all these as well, just as most encoders.

Still, the question is what is the most commonly used end result? 720x576? 768x576? stretch? square or non-square pixels? etc... ?
Since I am planning for a content store, please consider it from the perspective buyer (webmaster).

Thanks
David

[Georgie]

You should strive for the same dimensional aspect ratio of the original so that the body proportions of your actors aren't distorted. If Vegas has the feature, let it determine the proper X/Y resolution for common ouput formats. It should take into consideration things like pixel dimensions.

Putting in black borders to compensate for pixel dimensions may be a Vegas or other encoder feature so that the aspect ratio is preserved, and also to assure the stride of the video remains in multiples of 8. Do what looks good. WMP can play a video with a non-standard resolution, but keep in mind that the encoding will be best (and fastest) when the X & Y resolution are both in multiples of 8. That is the case of 720x576, which is the most common output resolution for PAL-originated content that I've encountered.

[thebes]

If you are planning for a content store and shooting content yourself now, you might consider HDV. Its not needed now, but if you will still be selling licenses to the same content in 3 years you might be very glad you did. That does away with the problems of different resolution and pixel aspect too.

If I could find content worth buying in my niche, and if I had a choice, I'd pay more for HDV... especially if shot progressive, then the frame grabs can make nice stills.

[david123]

Georgie,

Your input was much appreciated. After further testing, the final result is: 720x576, aspect ratio 5:4 with actual video 4:3 in it (black border added on top and bottom), people don't get distorted, deinterlaced, 25fps. Looks nice to me. Hopefully it will look good to the webmasters too...


thebes,

Yep, got HDV as well, and not expecting any of these nonsense problems with encoding. What's your niche? Guy getting spanked hard? I don't have any content like that right now, but who knows... perhaps soon.

[thebes]

Originally Posted by david123

Georgie,
thebes,

Yep, got HDV as well, and not expecting any of these nonsense problems with encoding. What's your niche? Guy getting spanked hard? I don't have any content like that right now, but who knows... perhaps soon.

Yup, the thing is there are very few people out there who do it properly. If you ever decide to shoot some please let me know.

[jerry xxxtreams]

Flesh is great,,